31 May 2008
Other Voices…
Posted by Ivory under: Logging?!?! .
Awareness about the logging at Cedarlands is growing nicely. In what I believe is a result of the pressure started here, the council put forth an article in the recent Scouting News. It attempts to put a nice spin on things. I’ll be posting a copy of it here later, and will let people judge for themselves about its accuracy.
In the mean time, however, it may worthwhile to hear from other corners. I’ve received quite a number of supportive and encouraging e-mails from people. Unfortunately, nearly all of them have asked that I not mention their names or any identifying information, as they are very concerned about their ability to stay in good standing with the Scout Council. I understand that some blistering notes have already circulated, telling people to not participate in the discussion here.
An excellent conversation has formed on the ADK Forum. The link here will direct you to the right thread.
www.adkforum.com/showthread.php?t=9021
To get the full copy of the conversation, I’d encourage you all to read there directly. In the mean time though, here are some worthwhile excerpts…
From backwoodsman …
I hope the scout counsil got their moneys worth, what exactly are they trying to teach the kids, stewardship?
From Lute Hawkins …
Many councils are strapped for money, but this campground looks like a friggin ****hole wasteland. If I was still in scouting, I’d never visit it now. Whose idea was this and who are they accountable to? [...]
Fisher 39 wrote…
My guess is that they put the land into 480a to take advantage of a very, very significant property tax break (around 80%, I believe) to keep it affordable [...] Without taking a walk through site, it is tough to see whether or not the logging was done in a responsible manner, but presumably the folks making the decision made sure they hired a good forester and contractor. [...] Sure, it looks bad now, but in a few years you can look forward to abundant warblers flitting through saplings this time of year, grouse exploding from the thick growth, and more wildlife overall.
DSettahr provided a particularly detailed and thoughful note, which read in part…
It was a mistake by whoever wrote the management plan (assuming they have one) to not leave a buffer zone around the camp infrastructure. [...] That whoever planned this harvest out would not take this into account is a shame, and it gives a bad name to the rest of us foresters. [...] While the aesthetic quality of the camp has regrettably been reduced, the forest will grow back, and as ADKHUNTER stated, there are additionally opportunities use this situation for educational purposes. [...] Yes, there were some mistakes made in this situation, but I am sure that there was no ill intentions by any of those involved. The BSA were wrong to allow harvesting to occur in the midst of the camp’s infrastructure, and to (apparently, I’m just guessing here) not consult with or take into account the opinions of those who use the camp and placed value in the forest simply being present before deciding to move ahead with the harvest. However, those who use the camp should also realize that the forest will grow back, and that timber production is an established and justified use of forested lands.
Lute Hawkins added…
I understand about the need to thin forests out from time to time and the various reasons why. But from the pictures, the place looks like a potential mudhole with little scenery in the main camping areas. [...]
I would think in a BSA campground, part of the attraction is the dense woods. Yes the trees will grow back, but I wonder if that $80,000 will cover the drop in revenue for the next 10 years, while troops go elsewhere until it does grow back…
Wldrns closed with…
I knew this was in the planning works for Cedarlands at least 3 years ago, through meetings and contacts with the council executive and camping committees. The Revolutionary Trails Council has been in financial trouble ever since they merged with (rather absorbed) the much smaller but well run General Herkimer Council several years ago. Actually they were in trouble well before that. The council owns a number of land holdings scattered in other areas, even beyond the three major core camps including Cedarlands. The only money maker after the merger was Camp Russell (previously run by GHC), but now attendance there is significantly down to nearly half from what it was a short time ago. They’ve selectively logged the area around Kingsley for years, though not to the clear cut extent now evident at Cedarlands. And within the past couple of years ago much of the timber adjacent to Russell has disappeared. You’d be further surprised at proposed plans to sell other pristine holdings, and to continue cutting back the quality of what until recently (IMO) was a very high quality scouting program. Some would say the scouting executives are eating their seed corn that was originally meant to sustain the future.
Again, I would encourage people to review the original postings on the site linked to above. I’ve only included here the parts that I felt were most relevant to our concerns.
Comments anyone?
4 Comments so far...
Old Scout Says:
1 June 2008 at 7:22 am.
Although I and many many others knew of the logging. What were should have been told was the extent as to what would be cut in base camp. Yes the Council needs the income. I know that there were and are many widow makers there. There are also many trees in the 4500 acres that aree of value including base camp. However to have the level of what was done is not what we were led to believe. It is one thing to log for money, health, safety, but to cut the amouint of trees that were done does not seem to be just these reasons.
I have wondered many times as to who really is in Charge of all this. Is it left to one or two individuals who are not LOGGERS! Should we not have someone there to guide the loggers as to what needs to go and what can go. I do not blame the loggers. They were and have done as they were directed. There seems to be some individuals who believe that their thoughts, beliefs, and ways are the ones of the Council. I believe that that is what has happened. Should not things of this magnitude be the decisions of the entire Exececutive Committee and those of us who use the camp and have to answer to the Scouts?
What is to happen next year? Do we lose more beauty of the camp? Hopefully there will be more decisive direction given.
Last year our Scouts mentioned about going to another camp. I can only hope they do not. However after this I cannot help but think that is what is going to happen.
With luck and hope after all this that the volunteers and others will be in on the decisions. Let us all get together to insure that this happens.
shocked2 Says:
1 June 2008 at 10:16 pm.
I, too, have to wonder why this decision was left to a few individuals. The loggers are not to blame, but the individuals who told them to keep cutting. How long do these individuals get to keep making decisions? Is there a time limit on their “term” in office? Isn’t this program for everyone - but most importantly the SCOUTS? I wonder how they will feel and react. It’s ironic that this is coming out now that summer is almost here and we have all paid our camp fees. Too late to go to a different camp. Any out of state troops coming to camp? Will they be surprised and disappointed? DOES OUR INPUT OR OPINION REALLY COUNT FOR ANYTHING?
ConScout Says:
2 June 2008 at 8:44 am.
Somewhere I read a comment that the skid trails will be nicer because they are wider than foot paths. Well, isn’t a Reservation all about minimal roads (which we had before) and more “low impact” foot trails. I rely more on the eye witness accounts and ground level photos to show me what has occurred as that is what a camper will truly see. However, there have been comments that the aerial shots do not do justice since the trees are not in full foliage…well, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that pine trees are not deciduous and I didn’t see very many of them in the aerial shots. Isn’t that what is so special about the Adirondacks? And another comment is that the forest will regrow. We all know this…but in, say 20 years? That is a lot of scouts that be grown before that ever occurs. And, sorry to say, many Scouters will be gone by then. And another comment is that the sites are wide open and will now allow for more tents and more sunlight. Nice points, I must agree to some extent, however, will there be so much open air (looking at the photos provided) that they won’t look like wilderness (Reservation) sites, but more like well planned recreational sites like at some public campgrounds? We can go and pay for that type of camping, if we choose…but not if we want Scout Reservation type camping.
I question the fact that the logger did such heavy cuttings in the campsite area (I think that everyone would agree that the “widow makers” needed to go and maybe some thinning…but not a fullblown cutting that it appears to be. With the 5000 acres we have up there, I didn’t think that the base camp area would be logged at all, let alone to the extent that it has. I would have thought that the loggers would have done the area where few people go. OR, that the wilderness area would have been done first. Maybe, the loggers wanted some quick money selling the trees for lumber from an area of camp that was already accessible by camp roads. I do hope that for $85,000, when this logging is all done…that all of CSR’s 5000 acres is not barren.
I have respected those that make the decisions for our properties in the Council (both paid and volunteer Scouters). I cannot believe that they approved to the extent what has happened at the CSR base camp area. They love Cedarlands as much as we do. I wonder if the loggers did way more logging than was expected in base camp and now we all have to scramble to address the carnage. The last thing I want to see is CSR being sold off. That camp is so much what this council is all about. We have a Cub camp. We have a dining hall Scout camp. We have a Scout reservation. We are one lucky BSA Council.
Kylie Batt Says:
21 April 2010 at 4:47 am.
Забавное положение дел…
Менеджер по работе с клиентами Awareness about the logging at Cedarlands is growing nicely…..
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